https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQWYdByNSg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1DlBRS0PiE. Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners Following 2605's destruction, it was discovered the ILS system was indeed not acccurate at Mexico City, not because of moving construction equipment obviously, but just off and inaccurate by degrees. Reichel was described as tired or unfit and he said so at one point in the cockpit. Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships 68 people died in that crash. I emailed the gracious Mr. Valenciana and he tells me his description of the crash in his book mentions a violent initial impact. Airport overviews from the air or ground, Tails and Winglets https://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/09/16/DC-10-fleet-to-undergo-hydraulic-system-changes, https://www.designnews.com/aerospace/designed-disaster-dc-10-airliner-part-4, https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1979/08/04/engineer-balks-at-changes-in-critical-dc10-systems, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_DC-10, https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a205115.pdf Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.153.142.87 (talk) 00:18, 18 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.180.238 at 23:02, 30 November 2019, The left landing gear was off the runway on the left side of runway 23L. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. "I saw a witch, a werewolf and a goblin" - Valenciana describing what he saw after climbing out of the mangled wreckage of a DC-10 in 1979. talked with him just six days before his fatal accident. Airport overviews from the air or ground, Tails and Winglets This thread is the most recent on Western 2605 on this website, so I thought I would add to it from here so that others might follow a google link and learn something as I have about this crash. However, Flying Magazine is low credibility content in comparison to the official reports, or at least we would expect it to be. The widely recognized, deeply systemic problems of control by market forces means any article is going to be edited to surrender to those market forces. [9] . - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, 20 minutes before the accident a 727 from Mexicana airlines landed normally on 23R using the "same procedure which the Western aircraft was instructed to follow". the ground at any time. Stay at this 4-star business-friendly hotel in Meylan. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnWwyVT-nEA. LAST WORDS ON FLIGHT: BRACE CHARLES! Otherwise his assertions aren't serious. Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin, Night Photos I have read nothing that suggests there was a disagreement in the cockpit as they prepared for landing. WA 2605, A 35 AOS DEL PEOR ACCIDENTE AREO EN LA CIUDAD DE MXICO Hopefully this accident is featured on one of the future Air Crash Investigation episodes on Discovery channel. Valable sur tout le rseau tram et bus TAG. - paragraph added at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80, His credibility has been questioned but he is persuasive. The following excerpt discusses flight 2605 as well as three other accidents that for purposes here aren't identified. SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]. . These recordings always give me the heebie-jeebies. On top of all this, the Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft, Special Paint Schemes Walsh's preparedness was unknown. Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles to Mexico City. The article doesn't mention how many of the fatalities were crew; I presume from the description that all three pilots perished. after initial touch down, when all engines were increased to a little over 100 The plane is surrounded by heavy, dense fog and other than this view into the cockpit there is no visibility. Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air . the flight path in reaction to the unstable localizer course." This contributor has read transcripts that start at and include the first signifigant contacts in Mexican airspace but I do not have access to the entire CVR which presumably is near 3 hours in length. Most reports I've read seem to state that Pilot Gilbert saw the truck. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air It's a plane which certainly has a divided history. On October 31, 1979, at 5:42 a.m. CST, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, crashed at Mexico City International Airport in fog, after landing on a runway closed for maintenance. on it, except than the official one. On the other hand, it had developed a reputation among passengers and the media due to its string of high profile incidents. The plane landed in the shoulder in the wrong runway, without tower clearance, after at what was at best a shoddy approach, collided with a big, heavy truck and we know the rest. Is it not discussed in the reliable sources? This is presumably the point he is yelling "Jesus Christ!" For more information, please see our Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft We thank you for your support and hope you'll join the largest aviation community on the web. None of these higher authorities performed as required by law and regulation to make sure the buck stopped sooner. Population: 6,630 People The right landing gear was momentarily on its way to impacting the loaded dump truck. - paragraph amended at 20:24 by 68.33.74.40 and at 20:30 and 20:31 by 173.120.246.108, 25 December 2019 (unsigned contributions), Please consider the following lines from the final page of his article as it appeared in Flying. Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos. Privacy Policy. AR385. ground and simultaneously struck i dump truck loaded with gravel. The violent crashing is clearly heard. We process personal data about users of our site, through the use of cookies and other technologies, to deliver our services, personalize advertising, and to analyze site activity. With the U.S. Air Force and I'd like to reply to yours as well. Posts: 6938 . Our large helicopter section. Western Airlines Flight 2605, nicknamed the "Night Owl", was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles, California, to Mexico City, Mexico. that he owned a T-6 and flew for fun, made such a mistake? We'll never know because of the damage to the CVR: "The possibility exists that the callouts were made but erased in that portion of the CVR tape; however, it is highly unlikely that this was accomplished. A notable comparison aircraft in the era of the DC-10-10 was the competing L1011 plane. board. I'm trying to find reliable online information to expand on the very short account of Western Airlines flight 2605 which landed on the wrong runway at Mexico City airport on 31 October 1979 and burst into flames after hitting construction equipment. A final point he makes concerning the catastrophe is difficult to disagree with: it was much easier to just blame the pilots for the accident because dead men tell no tales. So the CVR may in fact be missing details. (That is, do the sidestep "in advance", out by "Metro Eco".) accident had to be one of human factors. check out the. After the aircraft initially touched down, it continued along the ground This video also went out to my Patrons on Patreon 48 hours before going out publicly. but 18 inches of the right horizontal stabilizer, along with the right inboard and outboard elevators. All of them involved pilot fatigue, either from Key details are the same: 23L was closed, 23R was the open runway with a NOTAM many days before. His flight manager had promised to Most of the public is or was under the impression that safety would never be negatively impacted by sweeping "free market" legislation. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Discover your dream home among our modern houses, penthouses and. I don't know what the comment above means when it says the CVR contained "the required information." with his crew that he had requested several times to have From Appendix F Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management: "The right main landing gear was severed and, as it swung aft, it and the destroyed truck wreckage impacted the right inboard flap and aileron which was carried away. Plenty of people look back on the aircraft with fondness as an iconic piece of 20th century aviation. The report also mentions the altitude callouts required from Reichel might have been made, or partially made, but probably weren't anyway. CVR of Western Airlines 2605, terrifying. or profound horror - perhaps with a terrible awareness of the fate of the plane. Using the internet archive I was able to locate an archived copy of the airdisaster.com page with the wav file listed (May 2006), but the wav file itself (wal2605.wav) had not been archived. Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins He discredits ALPAs conclusions. Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR. The separation also caused an electrical power failure, critically affecting cockpit indicators. Pilot error but more directly false ILS signal phenomenon. The hydraulic system may have been destroyed. Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners Western 2605 was a crash in Mexico City that killed 72 people. Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin, Night Photos Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos. "More than 2g" presumably doesn't mean 3g or 4g so this is not wildly abnormal and more importantly would not cause damage to the aircraft. Another piece of frustration. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. Presumably the "Flying Magazine" article abridged content from 'official' reports and other sources. He considers this to be the collision with the truck and the right landing gear, not the touchdown. Plenty of people look back on the aircraft with fondness as an iconic piece of 20th century aviation. - paragraph added at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80. Privacy Policy. Note that the L1011 and B747 of the same era would lock the slats outward in the event of hydraulic fluid loss. A world wide price increase in oil occurred in 1979 mostly because of reduced supply as a result of the Iranian revolution that doubled the price of crude oil. Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. 1 / 3. Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder) Vintage news cast with low volume CVR but informational at beginning Louder CVR with no introduction LAST WORDS SAID BY CAPTAIN: JESUS CHRIST! He Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.61.11.102 (talk) 22:05, 4 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section created (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.148.69 at 17:40, 24 November 2019, This section states that the pilot saw the dump truck and then exclaimed "..Jesus Christ". ATC: Can you see the approach light to the left? Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:186:4500:26FF:C1E0:69E9:B72B:2DC8 (talk) 01:08, 3 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply], 'Your other left stupid.' Do we know this is correct? He was concerned about their work and Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Crash Recording, Scan this QR code to download the app now. The CVR was damaged, see below. Gilbert too was questionable, spending part of the time prior to the flight flying long distance in a private aircraft before getting some sleep. The front wheels never touched the runway until perhaps the aircraft was destroyed. We'll just consider it a "personal best" for the airport. - the eternal DI, Western was founded by a guy who flew for the RAF in WWI. - para break moved by 173.120.246.108 (unsigned contribution), at 20:30, 25 December 2019, Can you or I elucidate a point that otherwise sounds just as convincing as Garrison's op-ed? Ironically the article is surrounded by more pages of advertisements than its total page count. It's pilots loved the plane. ATC: "O.K., sir, approach lights are on the runway 23 left, but that runway is closed to traffic.". Gilbert, Reichel and Walsh flew the Night Owl route on October 31 as a back up crew. disasters had to occur and that all of the investigations lack comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a Comment . What happened was it was 3am, they were all half asleep on the job and descended into the ground, and one main gear happened to come into contact with a closed runway. " Western Airlines Flight 2605 19 Reply kapotchaboii 1 yr. ago Airplane lands accidantaly on the wrong runway half in the grass, half in the shoulder, try to power up the engines for a new try. The CVR has been widely available for years. In that accident investigators warned of the danger of trusting ILS signals without checking raw height/distance data. sition to the parallel operating runway at an airport with a Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. The CVR recording has a violent crashing sound which could be the initial collision with the dump truck and immediately following this is pilot Charles Gilbert's exclamation of "Jesus . Gilbert probably screamed "Oh Jesus Christ.turn left!" ed the knowledge to deal with the human aspect identified Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. held at the Hyatt-Regency Hotel Washington, DC September 29-0ctober 1, 1981. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. He has suggested an international cover up. We haven't read this conclusion in any of the reports because no one has access to ILS signaling after the fact, at least in this contributors understanding of what data was recorded in air operations so unfortunately this is speculation based on what happened. Airport overviews from the air or ground, Tails and Winglets Presumably the incident that FA Valenciana wrote about in his book (incidently changing the names of the pilots which is probably for legal reasons but not so much that you don't know who he is talking about) where Gilbert is yelling at Reichel would be captured with context by the CVR. Here's an author who unconvincingly defines ALPA's purpose. On the other. For more information, please see our I'd like to reply to yours as well. This accident, incidentally, occured 18 years after the crash of 2605 which investigators also pointed out altitude callouts, and fatigue. Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft This is blather with ludicrous speculation. along with what sounds to be "turn left." (American Airlines 1420) Pilots exhibited more recklessness if they fell behind schedule especially if landing at night and other aircraft landed successfully before them. The impact with the truck didn't destroy the plane, it continued to fly therefore we can assume the pilots would be actively talking (or screaming) until the next impacts and the final impact and their and the plane's destruction. Western Airlines Flight 2605, nicknamed the "Night Owl", was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles, California, to Mexico City, Mexico. Our guests praise the breakfast and the helpful staff in . (WARNING, DISTURBING) Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979. "There is also the possibility that the ILS signal could have been unstable due Browse more videos. Audio recording of Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR. Sep 3 - Sep 4. Is this necessary? Whether the motivation is morbid curiosity or not I think it is worthwhile. the distant horizon-c-at least for air carrier investigations The reason he feels this way was because of the potential for damaging political and economic fallout. for about 400 feet on the main landing gear. They had "stayed on the correct flight path to Runway 23 Right for most of the time between the outer marker "Metro Eco" and [the] Airport, and only deviated to the runway closed to traffic (23 Left) when at a height of (600 feet) above the ground during .. final approach": it looks as if they were intending to maintain a lateral separation from the ILS path (to 23L) so as to keep them in line to come straight in to 23R. There was still a major section of the plane sitting there that had burned. 28 - paragraph split at 01:17, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41, Reading the "Jumpseat: A Tale of Twisted Fate" book from surviving flight attendant Eduardo Valenciana - he wrote of a violent impact and then a dramatic attempt at a climb with full power - note, not two impacts but one. The damage sustained by the aircraft after impact with the truck was such that continued control flight was not possible. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. This penetration came in contact with the erasure circuit sending a momentary electrical impulse to the bulk eraser, causing a wedge- shaped segment of the tape to be erased.". He expressed serious concern about the approach to the air What time is it in Saint-Ismier? Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters Altitude callouts were required and may not have been done, but the ILS wasn't known to be giving erroneous readings but the plane 'half-landed',straight in to 23L, no flare, and half in the grass. Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles to Mexico City. give him a different crew if he would fly this one last flight The L1011 was a more costly plane but generally regarded as a better designed aircraft in many ways. In the early hours of January 16, 1942, their plane would crash on Potosi Mountain, killing everyone on board. Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder). All times are GMT. The aircraft continued flying just clear of the ground near taxiway Alpha.". While searching for the Western Airlines 2605, Mexico City, 1979 accident I discovered that there is nothing at all on the web. how about the poor general aviation pilot, what chance Flight 2605's "hydraulic systems" - as far as this contributor is aware - are not discussed in any crash analysis or publication. A few years later the public would be told an Air Florida 737 that crashed into a DC bridge was mostly because the pilots weren't from "the North". 72 of the 88 people on board, plus 1 person on the ground, were killed. Other entries are my opinions as well. explain how a 31,500 hour pilot, who liked to fly so much For more information, please see our The same sort of conditions facing Gilbert, Reichel and Walsh in Mexico City in '79: https://www.airlinereporter.com/2015/09/requiem-trijet-masterpiece-lockheed-l-1011-tristar/tristar-can-land-itself/, - section created at 21:25, 4 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.11.230, George B. Parker, Associate Professor of Safety Institute of Safety and Systems Management University of Southern California contributed the following paper to the "Proceedings of the Twelfth International Seminar of the International Society of Air Safety Investigators" which was a conference (?) We may share certain information about our users with our advertising and analytics partners. If anyone is familiar with this accident, you'll understand why I'm so curious about it. Its a plane which certainly has a divided history. Privacy Policy. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The system was apparently adjusted soon after with help from US authorities, this around the same time the US assisted with producing explicit instructions on the "side step" manouver for Mexico presumably so pilot error won't cause another accident but also (less cynically stated) to make airtravel safer - will need to find sources for this. I replied to one post below that had the time of day wrong concerning the accident. Might be good to add that detail. Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles, California, to Mexico City, Mexico. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. Gilbert had limited or no control over the plane after the collision with the dump truck. This would certainly result in limited to no control over the aircraft. Crew fatigue is believe to have been a contributing cause. The sound and tone of his exclamation is one of complete shock. Wow!! Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft The cause was due to ice formation on the wings. Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. RE: Western 2605 In MEX - New Pics #8819177 BY thegoldenargosy - Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:22 am One of the flight attendants survived and is still flying for DL in SLC. Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin, Night Photos The most common CVR excerpt begins at landing on 23L where Gilbert is asking if "we're clear on the right?". Consider the false instrument landing system (ILS) glideslope indication which was said to have caused Korean Air Flight 801 to smash into a hill outside of Guam in 1997. Pictures of great freighter aircraft, Government Aircraft More importantly pilot errors occured. The entire CVR is not easily accessable. ", This page was last edited on 3 May 2022, at 01:09. - para break moved, + para amended, by 173.120.246.108 (unsigned contribution), at 20:30, 25 December 2019, - section created at 22:08, 25 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.246.108. They will have been expecting something like 2-3 miles visibility (per the 05:00 weather report). This explanation is not addressed by our article as it stands. Its a red herring to say they landed on the wrong runway. He seems to remember that soon after this the planes nose rose and the engines were screaming. Its a red herring to say they landed on the wrong runway. A friend of the Western Airlines DC-I0 captain had - paragraph amended at 21:05, 30 December by 173.120.131.243 and 00:00, 31 December 2019 by 173.120.182.80 (unsigned contributions), Bordering on the fantastic Eduardo claims the Mexican police kidnapped him and were trying to force him to sign confessions or affidavits stating the pilots were drunk on liquor he had served them during the flight. The Spanish language page is similar to the English version. I ask this because there are more details that could be added to the article to give readers an even better understanding of this horrific accident. The US allowed Mexico to lead their official investigation into the accident. According to the research done by Dr. Zeller and McNorton, at the Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters Is the earlier contributer, above, right tht there was disagreement in the cockpit? surface altitude of over 7,000 feet. The CVR may in fact be missing information. "ALPA's purpose in large part was to exonerate the crew", "ALPA's attempt to identify causes highlights the mobility of that shapeless fluid thing called "blame". The May 25, 1979 American Airlines DC-10 crash involved the separation of the left engine from the left wing and the shredding of hydraulic lines with it. after the truck collision. (The paper is easy to source online). - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, The ICAO publication doesn't correlate sounds from the CVR to events as they are happening but the CVR recording of the final moments of this accident is probably the most impressionable record of the event the general public has access to and it may be unclear how the accident was unfolding with just the audio. Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. The CVR is described as sustaining damage in this report, DOT/FAA/PM-86/46 "Aeronautical Decision Making -Cockpit Resource Management": "The voice recorder was recovered from the wreckage; however, the unit had been pierced. Yet the idea that some pettiness contributed to the disaster continues to appear from time to time. Cockpit crew coordina Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews Western Airlines Flight 2605 LAX-MEX '79 #10741679. My dad has mentioned to me several times this accident. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. Encore moins cher pour les -26 ans. The L1011 had the ability to 'land itself' with the proper equipment installed at the airfield. an average person who is tired. The plane just went all the way through to the closed runway. He was defending his company by blaming the pilots. We'll just consider it a "personal best" for the airport. control. Apparently the official transcript is not quite correct so I'll put my interpretation in the captions. . Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. Well, yeah, but what if they thought the runway they had visual contact with was the correct runway, 23R? By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. 1 mois de voyages illimits. For additional details, refer to our Privacy Policy. It was a DGAC (Mexican) investigation. I replied to one post below that had the time of day wrong concerning the accident. Consider joining here from 1 per month: https://www.patreon.com/DisasterBreakdownTwitter: https://twitter.com/Chloe_HowieCBMusic/Personal Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOwQGtbF_x7ODL1U_A61IQgTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/chloe_canariabirdThe year of 1979, to be honest, was a terrible year for one of the worlds Largest passenger plane. Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.120.156.105 (talk) 22:49, 11 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], Engineers blamed the design of hydraulic lines in the DC-10 as a contributing factor to the deadly March 3, 1974 Turkish Airlines DC-10 crash caused primarily by a cargo door failure and the subsequent violent decompression. This thread is the most recent on Western 2605 on this website, so I thought I would add to it from here so that others might follow a google link and learn something as I have about this crash. The CVR recording has a violent crashing sound which could be the initial collision with the dump truck and immediately following this is pilot Charles Gilbert's exclamation of "Jesus Christ" and a complete change of intensity in the cockpit. I have read something that suggests there was a disagreement in the cockpit about matters unrelated to the actual landing stage of the flight. This is what I have gathered this far: Some forum posts from 2004-2005 claiming there is "a wealth of material" on google. More curious is the fact that Gilbert had just written up Reichel and had a meeting with him the day of the flight although that was said to have been amicably concluded. I don't know how this can be verified but perhaps it is correct. I've compiled some thoughts that I've placed under yours that I've read from reports of the accidents, both FAA and ICAO. It is strange. This page was generated at 03:03. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westernes_Flight_2605, http://aviation-safety.net/database/?id=19791031-0, http://books.google.com/books?id=8BVpage&q&f=false, http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fod.main/130485/, http://tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/program.pl?ID=57025, http://web.archive.org/web/200910220/blackbox.html, http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/-tapes-cd.html, http://www.taxiways.de/DC-10/accident/N903WA.html, If this is your first visit, be sure to Pilot Gilbert got on the power (100%) before the impact with the truck and after Reichel calmly called to go around after everyone agreed they were at 23L. as the cause of each accident. McDonnell Douglas made three more hydraulic system design changes following this accident.

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